Special Release - Firmware Version 3.03.16 for WD TV Live Hub (4/4/12)

[Skynite]

Does any one have any news on when the next release of the firmware is due out? I am waiting for the Netflix update and the BBC iPlayer. I did updated to the latests release as soon as it came out and so far have not had any issues. All my videos still play, the music player still works and I can still access everything that I could before.

[Tinwarble]

@DeVicious,

Well first, I'll have to give you that it isn't compressing/resizing jpgs.  I think that with my initial test my thumb files were not getting overwritten so some of the same resized thumbs were still being used.

However, as for why pngs over jpgs, first has to do with complexity.  If you use just a simple table to display the mirror then it's not a problem using the mirror effect, but if you use a more complex table, or say a changing table where the moviesheet is generated on the table like Tarus 35 sheets (see HERE) then the mirror effect doesn't work, at least not so that you can see through the reflection to see what is behind.  So you are locked into only being able to make certain themes where the table is simplistic.

Second, there is an issue with using the mirror effect where it does cause artifacting in the mirror image.  I know that this has been somewhat addressed, however, it still is less than acceptable and the solution causes a limitation as to the space that you can have between the image and the mirror and you don't have this issue with png's.

As for the lag time with pngs over jpgs, if you go back to older firmware, 2.07 and later, the lag time for jpgs and pngs are about the same for the same size original image.  There are more factors than just the file size of the image as to what causes the lag, such as how the images are cached.  And as that the newer firmware doesn't allow for pngs to be displayed with the newer caching method it is unknown it the lag time is improved for pngs as well.  Remember this though, when you have no cover-art for you file the navtive default image is a png and there isn't any lag.  This may not be the best example, because the default image is just a single image generated multiple times, but there really isn't any reason why a png couldn't be displayed without any lag or at least very little lag.

Also, just to say this, by using the mirror effect you are basically doubling the image size for you thumb anyway.  For every layer you add you are adding to the overall display size.

[DeVicious]

@ Tinwarble

first of all thanx for clearing that up for me...

as for the mirror effect and the possible lag, there is none as far as I can measure it but I agree it is more images to load in theory it should take longer as usual, it doesn't but the loading process becomes more visible.

As for the design restrictions with JPG files, CHALLENGE ACCEPTED (don't get this the wrong way please, i don't want to challenge you) I think it is doable with a more than just an acceptable result. The diffusor image fades out the movie sheet regardless what is on the sheet or how complex the table is. Of course it changeds the las 60 pixels of the sheet but the effect is still there and overlaying a mirror into a mirror is probably not the greatest idea anyways.

I totally understand why an PNG gives more freedom, I didn't mean to ask that, I was just trying to encourage the idea of working around it as people really seem to love it and still can be on the newest firmware.

Kazgor made an interesting point earlier, he asked if the hub generated images (as substitute for the source png) can be overwritten with our own files? Has this been tested and would it work? If nobody tested it I sure will do that and see what can be done. It wouldn't take much to create program that would generate copies of the source png and puts them into the thumb folder with the appropriate file name.

Well thanx for the reply I appreciate it, I hope they find a way soon to make everyone happy.

[Tinwarble]

@DeVicious,

If I made it sound as though there would be a lag with the mirror effect I didn't mean too.  I have tested this method and I'm aware that there's really no lag.  My statement was more of a reply to your statement about png's being a larger file than jpg's and I meant to say that when you double the jpg for the mirror effect you still end up with an overall larger display size.  My meaning is that there shouldn't be any more lag with one large image than it takes with displaying the same smaller sized image twice.

As for the reflections with jpg's, personally I just don't see the same quality as I do with png's.   However, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from developing around the limitations and want everyone to do what ever they can to make better themes.  But I am more concerned in encouraging WD to give us better firmware without the needless limitations so that even better themes can be developed.   Good is never good enough and we shouldn't just be happy with what we can "work around" especially when there is no hardware limitation from making it work.

Also as for Kazgor's suggestion, if I remember correctly I don't believe this will work.  From my previous tries you can't just change the thumbs in the thumb folder to be something else.  The problem is that the thumb folder is not the only place the thumbs are cached because they are also cached in the internal memory.  And if I remember correctly, if you change the thumb in the thumb folder it will get overwritten by the internal thumb.

[mc_beastie]

I installed the update and now when I play music, any music, with the screen saver on with my personal photos, the unit will reboot by itself after about 10 minutes and the media library recompiles.

If the media library hasn't changed, why would it feel the need to recompile?

Any why does the Twonky Media Server checkbox never stay checked in the web GUI?

I have also had issues with a 3TB disk attached with the intention of storing all my movies and TV shows.  While this is possible, the GUI makes it unreasonable difficult to navigate through each and every show every time I want to scroll to something or the search feature is so slow it isn't usable.

The key features, the reason I bought this, was it could take external disk and the DLNA server and neither of those work very well if at all.

This is a great product in theory, but I have had nothing but issues with it.  Are there plans to revamp the GUI and make this easier to navigate which larger libraries?

[DeVicious]

@ Tinwarble

I completely understood what you meant about the "mirror lag" I was just confirming it because I was thinking the same thing, on paper it should be way slower but it isn't.  Since we are not alone here I thought I make it understandable what we are even talking about 

Regarding the reflection quality I would respectfully disagree. This obviously depends on how you do it and how good your photo shop skills are to create the flash images and masks, the result however will always be theme appropriate and goes with the flow which for me is the better quality as a movie sheet taking over the entire look. The reflection quality itself will not change, it doesnt matter if you fade out the thumbnail or lay an image that is identical with the background on top of it, in fact with the mirror technique you can soften and strengthen the effect as you wish in (let's say) a re design of your theme on top of that your thumbnails remain compatible with other themes. I find that actually an advantage and I am sorry to disagree.

Where I fully agree again is that we should not have to work around it, I can see no good reason but warranty concerns (could be totally wrong) in order to bring down the memory load. However if I had the freedom today to choose I would still use the mirror effect for the cmpatibility reason alone, not because I want them to use my stuff because I don't want them to go through the pain of creating new thumbnails for each theme.

[Tinwarble]

@DeVicious,

Well you don't have to be sorry to disagree.

But I have to disagree, because no matter you skills with photoshop (Gimp in my case), you can not get rid of the fact that the mirror image has artifacting in it.  Yes, you can soften it & make it less noticable, but it is still not as acceptable to me as to use png's which don't suffer from the same issues.  Issues such as limiting the roundness of the thumbnail, and yes I know you can simulate round corners, but to make them as round as mine you would have to make the overlay mask so that the effect was undesirable.

It is not my concern to make themes that are compatible with other themes, but rather to make themes that work with all the functions of the HUB.  You say " I don't want them to go through the pain of creating new thumbnails for each theme", however, they still have to create different moviesheets for different themes (since none are alike), so really how much more work is it to create new thumbs at the same time?

[DeVicious]

@ Tinwarble

how do you produce artefacts with uncompressed jpg files mirrored in 1:1 quality?

is that because you reduce them in height and they get pixelated when you downscale them?

is that because of the diffusor image?

or because you don't intend to do it with the newest firmware and uncompressed images?

this is a crop from my large_video, i used this one because it is the larges, as you can see you can see the background is very complex with all this snake skin stuff. Unlike Joey who was using flash icons to mask the square areas of the rounded covers i am using 1 images 1280x100 as a diffusor which is a faded identical area from the background.

[DeVicious]

Oh wait i think I get it

are you referring to the 1 pixel "distortion" in top of the mirrored image?

If that's the case change the loading order let the mirror load first and the cover load second, the actual cover will occupy this space so you will never actually see it. If you leave a 1 or 2 pixel line in your glass table effect you work that into your diffusor image. I have never seen this in Joeys Demo or my own theme.

[Tinwarble]

Yes, I already know that, and is what I was refering.  Which is what lead to my statement about not being able to change the distance from the thumb and mirror image.

This is why I said it is not as acceptable as png's.  If you notice on mine, there is about a 5 pix space.

This is what I prefer.  It's not that I can't do what you are doing with your thumbs, it would be easy enough for me to do,  I just don't won't too.  My preference is to use png's for thumbs, I fill the effect is better, & since I use the same image for my "poster" image (which by the way can't be done with the mirror effect becasue you can see the moviesheet through my reflection), with png's.  So I'd rather have WD allow for png to be used, than to use a work-around, which is not a complete work-around for my design.

And again, if you look at my thumb, you can't make your's look like my with the mirror/masking effect.  You can't get the corners that round  and you can't get the spacing in the reflection without artifacting.  And you can't make the "poster image look like this:

Without making it a part of the moviesheet, which is not what I want to do.