match video framerate set to on causes reboot [ Edited ]

[TonyPh12345]

Actually, your TV *must* report its native resolution and framerate capabilties over HDMI. That's a requirement of HDMI implementation. It's called EDID, and all HDMI devices must support it.

The working theory is that the WD DVD player code is not properly supporting native resolutions that aren't typical for TVs.

And despite your protests to the contrary, 768p is NOT a common TV resolution. It may not be RARE, but it's not common (this according to VESA, the authors of EDID protocol)

Most 720p TVs are just that.. 720p.

And BTW, the DVD player has its own HDMI handshake. Whe you turn off NAV mode, you also are disabling that, hence why that also corrects the issue.

(edit: corrected formatting)

[schwurbel]

Come on man, can you please read and understand the replies?

WDTV is outputting in 720p@60Hz, how is that an uncommon HD-resolution? The upscaling is done in the TV and shouldn't affect or be of any interest to the player at all.

And 1366x768 is a perfectly common resolution for the smaller TV-sets (22" to 26").

[TonyPh12345]

>>> Come on man, can you please read and understand the replies?

>>> WDTV is outputting in 720p@60Hz, how is that an uncommon HD-resolution?

You're not paying attention to what I'm saying.   720p is NOT an uncommon resolution, and I never said it was.  

The WDTV will ONLY ever output 480, 576, 720, or 1080.  NOTHING else.  

First, I will tell you that I agree that what ya'll are reporting is a bug.   I'm not trying to explain anything away.  So just be patient with me and let me try to explain what MIGHT be going on.   This is important because WD needs to know what the conditions are to be able to reliably reproduce this bug, and thus find a fix.

All HDMI-attached devices must report their capabilities to the WDTV.

The WDTV then uses that set of reported capabilities to configure the output chipset to display video and encode audio correctly.

The WDTV has at least TWO sets of code that does that function; the primary UI (which is used by almost all video output formats) and the DVD playback software.

WD made some beneficial changes to the HDMI negotiation code in this version;  many people had TVs for which WD would choose the wrong resolution outright.   I have two 1080p TVs that would both report their native resolution as 1080p, yet the WDTV would select 720p as the default resolution.  That has now been corrected.

See this thread for technical detail about how you determine what your TV is sending to the WD ... and how the WD interprets it:

http://community.wdc.com/t5/WD-TV-Live-General-Discussions/Is-your-Live-Plus-Hub-picking-the-wrong-r...

...but it would appear that it is NOT working for the DVD playback code correctly under certain circumstances, such as if the TV reports its native resolution as 768.

So here's what I suspect is happening:

If you have FRAMERATE matching on:

  The WDTV is launching the DVD player software.

  The DVD player does its own EDID handshake.

  The DVD player is given a list of native resolutions and FRAMERATES that it does NOT understand.

  The player is not able to find a match in order to set up the HDMI path.

  The player crashes and reboots.

If you turn OFF framerate matching:

  The WDTV is launching the DVD player software.

  The DVD player does its own EDID handshake.

  The DVD player is given a list of native resolutions, it ignroes the frame rate, and just stays with the UI selected resolution.

  The player plays.

If you turn OFF DVD Menu Mode:

  The WDTV is NOT launching the DVD player software.

  The player uses the settings already defined by the UI EDID handshake

  The movie plays.

WD needs to understand the exact conditions that cause this to happen.

I have three 720 TVs... NONE of them report a Non-TV resolution -- I can't reproduce this bug.

I have two 1080p TVs ... .This bug doesn't occur.

If WD doesn't have one of these "768p" TVs in their testing lab, they're not going to be able to reproduce this bug.

[schwurbel]

If it helps:

Samsung LE22B650, Firmware 2008.0

Monitor
  Model name............... SAMSUNG
  Manufacturer............. Samsung
  Plug and Play ID......... SAM0530
  Serial number............ n/a
  Manufacture date......... 2008, ISO week 51
  Filter driver............ None
  -------------------------
  EDID revision............ 1.3
  Input signal type........ Digital
  Color bit depth.......... Undefined
  Display type............. RGB color
  Screen size.............. 160 x 90 mm (7,2 in)
  Power management......... Not supported
  Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
  -------------------------
  DDC/CI................... Not supported

Color characteristics
  Default color space...... Non-sRGB
  Display gamma............ 2,20
  Red chromaticity......... Rx 0,640 - Ry 0,330
  Green chromaticity....... Gx 0,300 - Gy 0,600
  Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0,150 - By 0,060
  White point (default).... Wx 0,313 - Wy 0,329
  Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
  Horizontal scan range.... 26-68kHz
  Vertical scan range...... 24-75Hz
  Video bandwidth.......... 230MHz
  CVT standard............. Not supported
  GTF standard............. Not supported
  Additional descriptors... None
  Preferred timing......... Yes
  Native/preferred timing.. 1360x768p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1360x768" 85,500 1360 1424 1536 1792 768 771 777 795 +hsync +vsync
  Detailed timing #1....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1280x720" 74,250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
     720 x  400p at  70Hz - IBM VGA
     640 x  480p at  60Hz - IBM VGA
     640 x  480p at  67Hz - Apple Mac II
     640 x  480p at  72Hz - VESA
     640 x  480p at  75Hz - VESA
     800 x  600p at  60Hz - VESA
     800 x  600p at  72Hz - VESA
     800 x  600p at  75Hz - VESA
     832 x  624p at  75Hz - Apple Mac II
    1024 x  768p at  60Hz - VESA
    1024 x  768p at  70Hz - VESA
    1024 x  768p at  75Hz - VESA

EIA/CEA-861 Information
  Revision number.......... 3
  IT underscan............. Supported
  Basic audio.............. Supported
  YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
  YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
  Native formats........... 1
  Detailed timing #1....... 1280x720p at 50Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1280x720" 74,250 1280 1720 1760 1980 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
  Detailed timing #2....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74,250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
  Detailed timing #3....... 1920x1080i at 50Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74,250 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
  Detailed timing #4....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "720x480" 27,000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync

CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported
    1280 x  720p at  60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
    1280 x  720p at  50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080i at  60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080i at  50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
     720 x  480p at  60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
     720 x  576p at  50Hz - EDTV (16:9, 64:45)
    1920 x 1080p at  60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  25Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE audio data (formats supported)
  LPCM    2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48 kHz

CE speaker allocation data
  Channel configuration.... 2.0
  Front left/right......... Yes
  Front LFE................ No
  Front center............. No
  Rear left/right.......... No
  Rear center.............. No
  Front left/right center.. No
  Rear left/right center... No
  Rear LFE................. No

CE video capability data
  CE scan behavior......... Supports overscan and underscan
  IT scan behavior......... Supports overscan and underscan
  PT scan behavior......... Not supported
  RGB quantization range... Not supported
  YCC quantization range... Not supported

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
  IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
  CEC physical address..... 1.0.0.0
  Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. Yes
  Supports 48bpp........... No
  Supports 36bpp........... Yes
  Supports 30bpp........... Yes
  Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... Yes
  Supports dual-link DVI... No
  Maximum TMDS clock....... 225MHz

Report information
  Date generated........... 15.05.2012
  Software revision........ 2.60.0.972
  Data source.............. Real-time 0x0021
  Operating system......... 6.0.6002.2.Service Pack 2

Raw data
  00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,4C,2D,30,05,00,00,00,00,33,12,01,03,80,10,09,78,0A,EE,91,A3,54,4C,99,26,
  0F,50,54,BD,EE,00,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,66,21,50,B0,51,00,1B,30,40,70,
  36,00,A0,5A,00,00,00,1E,01,1D,00,72,51,D0,1E,20,6E,28,55,00,A0,5A,00,00,00,1E,00,00,00,FD,00,18,
  4B,1A,44,17,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FC,00,53,41,4D,53,55,4E,47,0A,20,20,20,20,20,01,8E,
  02,03,23,F1,4B,84,13,05,14,03,12,10,1F,20,21,22,23,09,07,07,83,01,00,00,E2,00,0F,67,03,0C,00,10,
  00,B8,2D,01,1D,00,BC,52,D0,1E,20,B8,28,55,40,A0,5A,00,00,00,1E,01,1D,80,18,71,1C,16,20,58,2C,25,
  00,A0,5A,00,00,00,9E,01,1D,80,D0,72,1C,16,20,10,2C,25,80,A0,5A,00,00,00,9E,8C,0A,D0,8A,20,E0,2D,
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 Like I said, it reports itself as 720p to the WDTV, and the WDTV is initially outputting in 720p@60Hz.

Further video framerate-matching isn't working with PAL-DVD-playback even with DVD-menu off, although the TV would support it.

Also hard-setting the WDTV-output to 720p@50Hz works fine.

[TonyPh12345]

---

schwurbel wrote:

Like I said, it reports itself as 720p to the WDTV, and the WDTV is initially outputting in 720p@60Hz.

---

No, it doesn't.

It is reporting that 720p is a compatible timing, but:

Native/preferred timing.. 1360x768p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1360x768" 85,500 1360 1424 1536 1792 768 771 777 795 +hsync +vsync

It's reporting its preferred timing to the WDTV as 1360x768.

This line:

CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported
    1280 x  720p at  60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]

,,, is what the WDTV *used* to prioritize; but that caused numerous problems because many TVs mark multiple resolutions as NATIVE when they are NOT, as your TV is doing.  My LG 1080p TV does the same thing.   My Panasonic Viera TV reports *ALL* resolutions to be native.

Your TV is marking the PREFERRED Native to be 1360x768, and then marking an additional Native (in the extended EDID) as 1280x720.

The WDTV now obeys the VESA rule that the PREFERRED timing must be considered first.  But in your case, the preferred timing isn't a valid resolution for TV PAL / NTSC / SECAM standards.  

So the WDTV must look elsewhere for a "compatible" resolution, and in your case, the compatible resolution chosen is 720p.

A panel has ONE Native resolution.   Many TVs report LOWER resolutions as their natives, such as many LG 1080p TVs. 

You can read up one VESA's EDID specification, and how they are intended to be used, here:

http://www.vesa.org/vesa-standards/free-standards/

[TonyPh12345]

Oh, and I was able to reproduce this issue on an old PC monitor I have in my office....  same resolution, 1360x768p.

[schwurbel]

---

TonyPh12345 wrote:

Your TV is marking the PREFERRED Native to be 1360x768, and then marking an additional Native (in the extended EDID) as 1280x720.

The WDTV now obeys the VESA rule that the PREFERRED timing must be considered first.  But in your case, the preferred timing isn't a valid resolution for TV PAL / NTSC / SECAM standards.  

So the WDTV must look elsewhere for a "compatible" resolution, and in your case, the compatible resolution chosen is 720p.

A panel has ONE Native resolution.   Many TVs report LOWER resolutions as their natives, such as many LG 1080p TVs. 

---

That's all fine and nice, but how can the EDID-info be the problem, when the WDTV is doing the framerate/resolution-switch just fine for other files?

720p@60 -> 1080p@24 and back, no problem

720p@60 -> 720p@50 and back, no problem

So, again:

1.) Crash with match on and dvdmenu on

2.) No crash with match on and dvdmenu off, but also no actual framerate-matching.

And if it's really because of the EDID-info of 768-panels, I wonder what WD is testing with, as panels with that resolution are omnipresent for TVs with a diagonal smaller than 26" (except those also marketed as monitors).

PS: To make things a bit weird: The original WDTV is outputting in 1360x768@60

[TonyPh12345]

---

schwurbel wrote:

That's all fine and nice, but how can the EDID-info be the problem, when the WDTV is doing the framerate/resolution-switch just fine for other files?

720p@60 -> 1080p@24 and back, no problem

720p@60 -> 720p@50 and back, no problem

So, again:

1.) Crash with match on and dvdmenu on

2.) No crash with match on and dvdmenu off, but also no actual framerate-matching.

And if it's really because of the EDID-info of 768-panels, I wonder what WD is testing with, as panels with that resolution are omnipresent for TVs with a diagonal smaller than 26" (except those also marketed as monitors).

PS: To make things a bit weird: The original WDTV is outputting in 1360x768@60

---

My presumption is that other Non-DVD files are obeying the UI's HDMI code, but the DVD player software (which is separate) does not.    I can tell that the DVD mode uses its own HDMI handshake because whenever  I start a DVD, my TV indicates that the HDMI signal is dropped / restarted.   This does not happen with other files;  *only* DVDs do an HDMI resync.

... and by disabling Auto Framerate, that's apparently removing some sub-component of the handshake process, and by disabling menus, it's disabling the DVD player (and its associated handshake) software altogether.

>>> I wonder what WD is testing with...

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3805/session/L3RpbWUvMTMzNzExMTA1Ny9zaWQvUWZsNVBiWWs...

[Strider_Nemesis]

---

TonyPh12345 wrote:

>>> I wonder what WD is testing with...

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3805/session/L3RpbWUvMTMzNzExMTA1Ny9zaWQvUWZsNVBiWWs...

---

That's curious, because the Toshiba 32AV500U (shown in the list) is a 1366x768 panel.

[TonyPh12345]

Indeed, it is!